Chuvash manual - introduction, grammar, reader and vocabulary

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Historically, yes. After a hundred years of Russian rule, Karelian is Russian-influenced in ways that Finnish is not. During various periods, Finnish has been able to serve as a Dachsprache for various kinds of Karelian. In many practical ways, a lot longer than Peter the 1st made Karelia a Russian domain again, as finalized by Nystad treaty of Only in XIX c. Did we already discuss it on LH? A people divided vs.

Yes, but …. Finnish government should do with regard with Karelian in Finland what it preaches to Russia regarding various Finno-Ugric languages there. Namely, establish superauthonomous region in its part of Karelia, make Karelian it could be different from Karelian in Russia, no problem an official language there, make teaching in Karelian mandatory all way to university level, sponsor publication of literary works in Karelian, fund Karelian language TV channels etc, etc.

No doubt, Finnish government has vastly much more money to do this than governments of impoverished Finno-Ugric republics of Russia. The former is considered by everyone, even the Finnish Karelians themselves, as part of the big mix of Finnish dialects. It differs no more from the Finnish standard language than any of the many other dialects of Finland, and the Karelian dialects are readily understood by other Finns.

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Finnish Karelians are quite content with speaking their regional variety on an everyday basis but using the Finnish standard language in writing, just like people from any other region of Finland do. There is a small amount of dialect publishing, and it enjoys Finnish state funding. So it would be like returning East Prussia to the Germans, where pretty much the entire current population of Kaliningrad and environs consists of non-German post-war arrivals and their descendants, and returning the territory vacant of its current population might not be feasible.

Oh, sure. I was proposing it purely as a thought experiment; obviously the facts on the ground are discouraging in all sorts of ways. Finnish Karelian is just a dialect. And there is no need for official Finnish Karelian language, because Finnish Karelians are quite content with using standard Finnish. Besides, there is a small amount of publishing in Finnish Karelian dialect funded by Finnish state.

So no problem. Only one word needs to be changed throughout the text:. Russian Karelian is just a dialect. And there is no need for official Russian Karelian language, because Russian Karelians are quite content with using standard Russian. Besides, there is a small amount of publishing in Russian Karelian dialect funded by Russian state. Most of the territory which FInland lost after the Winter War was in the northern part of Karelian isthmus. It now forms Sestroretsk and Priozersk districts of Leningrad oblast. The region was repopulated after and then again after almost entirely by ethnic Russians and has no ethnic Finnish or ethnic Karelian minority.

Finnish is spoken there regularly by Finnish tourists who come to drink cheap Russian vodka every Friday night. Finnish government regarded Karelian of East Karelia as dialect of Finnish. Instead, Finnish was made an official language of Soviet Karelia. After purges of , leadership of Soviet Karelia was replaced and Soviet government decided that Karelian is indeed a separate language from Finnish.

On the basis of rather diverse Karelian dialects, Soviet linguists created unified Karelian literary language which is still in use. From purely linguistic point of view, northern Karelian dialects are close to Finnish and could be plausibly regarded as dialects of Finnish, while southern dialects are more divergent and are not mutually intelligible with Finnish or even northern dialects of Karelian. Unified Soviet Turkic literary language to serve Turkic peoples of Soviet Union was proposed and seriously considered in s.

Buryat and Kalmyk used classical Mongolian written language which the Soviet linguists initially wanted to keep after reforming a bit. This unifying trend was ultimately rejected and Soviets ended up with dozens of Turkic and three Mongolian literary languages. Soviet Moldavian language was also criticized as artificial and purely political creation Moldavians and Romanians speak essentially same language.

However, some defenders of Moldavian argue that creation of literary Romanian in 19th century itself was artificial and political affair change of script from Cyrillic to Latin and replacing many Slavonic terms with borrowings from French and Italian , so Soviet Moldavian was just restoring its historical heritage. I suppose the lack of any meaningful ethnic Karelian presence in much of the territory the Finns were driven out of explains why it got reassigned to Leningrad not even sic, alas Oblast rather than to the theoretically semi-autonomous Karelian SSR and its various successors.

In perhaps a foretaste of more recent post-Soviet border disputes, it appears that the post-WW1 international border between Finland and the Soviets was set more or less on historical grounds, i.

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That had the advantage of being as it were objective, but the disadvantage of not optimally tracking the ethnic or other arguably relevant facts on the ground with various Finnish nationalist groups wanting more expansive claims to liberate their brethren from the Bolshevik Yoke , but those ethnic etc. And of course the placement of the border itself affected the future ethnic facts on the ground, not least because of Stalinist deportation to Siberia etc. I suppose the lack of any meaningful ethnic Karelian presence in much of the territory the Finns were driven out of explains why it got reassigned to Leningrad not even sic, alas Oblast rather than to the theoretically semi-autonomous Karelian SSR.

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Note the hyphen, and its implicit claims to the lands of all Finns and Karelians. I suspect that it played no role at all, because all across the USSR, there were massive land transfers from entities accused of collaboration with the Nazis to the ones deemed loyal primarily Russia, Ukraine, and Georgia. So the motivation seems to be the same everywhere, punishing alleged traitors and rewarding loyalty. Protestant faith meant their being identified as Finns thereafter.

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My sentence above may need a clarification — it only applies to the Finnish minority of the antebellum Karelia. The population of the Isthmus has already been transferred to Finnish hinterlands by the government of Finland during the Winter War in Nov — Dec. Just under half of the resettled people returned to the Isthmus when it was reoccupied by Finland in WWII, only to escape again in Brewer: the frontiers between the Russian and Swedish spheres of political rule and cultural influence had shifted multiple times over the centuries.

The Swedish interest in the area since medieval times was control over the Russian trade via the Baltic Sea. In Peter the Great founded Petersburg where the Swedish town and fortress Nyen had existed since Finland had since 13th c. It was lost in the year war with Russia. But he was forced by Napoleon, who wanted to tie upp Swedish troops in the north. So after his victory Alexander made Finland a relativley independent Grand Duchy which only had to obey him in foreign and military affairs.

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Swedish continued to be the administrative language the entire Finnish elite spoke Swedish. This became the trigger for Finnish nationalism. For some reason he and others believed that the purest Finnish culture, a kind of Urheimat, was to find in Karelia. So he spent much of his life travelling around there collecting folklore and songs — resulting in the Kalevala.

The influence of Kalevala has since then played a significant role in Finnish emotional relations to Karelia. Stalin had no more expansionist ambitions towards Finland than czar Alexander. His concern was that Leningrad was within reach for artillery fire from the Karelian ishtmus. This along with the strong greater Finland sentiments made the Russians negotiate with the Finns during the thirties about trading parts of the ishtmus against other and larger areas further north.

The Finnish government however not only rejected this but also treated the Russians in a diplomatically arrogant manner throughout the thirties. So, following the Molotov-Ribbentrop treaty which they saw as a respite the Russians launched the winter war with the main purpose of securing Leningrad. But as always wars tend to run amok. The history of this corner of the world is indeed a composite one. Stefan, interesting post. Without Russian interference would Finnish have ended up like Sorbian, a mostly rural minority language spoken by people who more or less identify ethnically with the national majority group, or been more like Czech and seen a national revival anyway?

As of it has 15 million speakers, vs. I forgot to mention that as Kalevipoeg is the son of Kalev, so the Kalevala is the land of Kalev. Swedish kings were lucky in the 30 years war and during the reign of Charles X Gustav , Charles XI However, with Charles XII and particularly after his defeat at Poltava in the decline started.

The eternal wars had ruined the country and the popular discontent was growing. He dreamed about a glorious big power in northern Europe and started the preparations for this. One of those was to count the population in Sweden proper at the time including Finland. Since all figures were available through the mandatory notifications of all births and deaths by the lutheran church initiated by the professional warrior kings.

Guesses were that the Swedes counted to some 10 million people. The actual result was a shock! We were just about one million — a fact so terrifying that it was classified and punishable by death to reveal — the czar would immediately attack if he got to know…. And the Russians to my knowledge never had the ambitions.

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  6. Irish is another interesting comparison. In the early 19th century, how different was the situation of Finnish in Finland to that of Irish in Ireland? How would Irish have fared if Ireland, say, had been lost to France in the Napoleonic wars? Probably not. On this map the orange area is Sweden in while the other colours mark conquered areas until German was spoken in the grey areas south of the Baltic and to some extent in present Estonia — hardly a majority:.

    Core Sweden — 1. In yet another alternative universe , where Gustav II Vasa wins his wars and keeps his empire with the help of a townful of time-traveling Americans, the dominant language outside Sweden itself becomes Amideutsch, a sort of semi-creole version of High German with Low pronunciation and lots of borrowings from 21C American English. The grammar reductions result from the attempts of the Americans and later others to handle written German grammar. Savonian is spoken just west of Western Karelian, and belongs to the eastern branch of the tree that historically includes the Karelian language, whereas Standard Finnish is basically a western dialect koine with lots of eastern words put in for extra added flavor.